RE: Pacinlist Digest, Vol 21, Issue 9
We crated one of these pieces a few years ago. We packed it in a travel
frame with a series of braces built out of wood and ethafoam lined with
volara to hold the brick in place. One of the problems we had was that
some of the brick we loose, the museum had to have there conservator re
attach some of the bricks. We also backed the canvas so the was very
little movement in the canvas, we had foam against the canvas and
foamcore holding that in place. It was a very time consuming project.
Once the piece was secured in the travel frame with no movement it was
put in a crate. The travel frame provided no cushioning it became part
of the piece he crate provided all the cushioning.
I well see if we have any photos of the packing still around. Please
contact me if you have any questions
Scott Atthowe
Atthowe Fine Art Services
3924 Market St.
Oakland, Ca. 94608
510-654-6816
e-mailscott@atthowe.com
-----Original Message-----
From: pacinlist-bounces@pacin.org [mailto:pacinlist-bounces@pacin.org]
On Behalf Of pacinlist-request@pacin.org
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 8:02 AM
To: pacinlist@pacin.org
Subject: Pacinlist Digest, Vol 21, Issue 9
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Crating a painting with 3D elements (Ashley McGrew)
2. RE: Crating a painting with 3D elements (Poisson, Marie-Chantale)
3. RE: Crating a painting with 3D elements (Ashley McGrew)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 11:27:43 -0700
From: "Ashley McGrew" <AMcGrew@getty.edu>
Subject: Re: Crating a painting with 3D elements
To: <pacinlist@pacin.org>
Message-ID: <4603B9AF.B720.00A8.0@getty.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Poisson,
Based on your description you could make a wood collar that fits snugly
around the frame with a non abrasive material attached to prevent
abrasion. The collar should be several inches deep (like a travel frame
with no extra room around the sides). The back edge of the painting
should line up with one edge of the collar. Assure this by laying the
painting down face up on an even surface then place the collar around
it. At this point attach blocks to the collar that will hold the frame
in that location later when you move it.
Next, tip the painting into its display orientation. Have a couple of
battens to attach to the back of the collar to lock the frame in place
while you work and also later while in transit.
While upright with whatever degree of sag the piece finds on its own,
run one-by braces between the projecting part of the collar.
Use these braces to support the outer part of the bricks (avoiding the
paint surface). These braces, along with additional blocks should be
placed to restrict movement vertically and side to side. Other blocks or
strips should be attached to prevent forward movement of the bricks.
For the sake of accuracy rather than try to measure the placement of
your braces hold them up in the exact position required to contact the
bricks and mark the precise location on the collar.
Similarly for placement of the blocks you can attach a bit of
chemically stable double-stick tape to the part of the block that
contacts the braces (obviously keeping clear of the Art).
The tape is just to hold the blocks in the exact position required long
enough to remove the frame and then use screws to secure it permanently.
All this done you should have a support that allows you ride the
painting face down with the brick fully supported or possibly upright in
an end loading crate. The later option allows you to keep the piece in a
consistent orientation and might be beneficial.
Before you ship the piece place heavy twill tape or thin soft webbing
around the back of the painting (underneath the battens) so that when it
is time for installation you can remove the battens and still keep the
frame in the collar while you carry the piece to the wall. Once secured
to the wall this strap or straps can be slid out from behind the object
and the frame removed.
One downside is that the back must be condition reported in the collar
and then the front condition reported on the wall
On the other hand a potential advantage is that if you have your
conservators approve the materials used, same basic design could be used
for storage as well.
This could help slow down at least sounds as though will be the
inevitable deterioration of the piece.
It is rare that you get to make you get to achieve the ideal of having a
all purpose mount - one that is suitable for transit, handling and
storage but in this case it might be worth the effort.
It is kind of neat that notion that if done well the piece need never be
handled directly again (unless for treatment purposes)!
Ok disclaimer time - I have never seen the piece. I don't know scale or
any number of other things that would effect the design but I thought I
would respond with a general idea anyway.
It could be a very dopey one.
Please feel free to call if I have been totally unclear also.
Good luck with your project.
Have a good weekend!
T. Ashley McGrew
Lead Preparator
J. Paul Getty Museum
1200 Getty Center Drive
Los Angeles, CA 90049-1687
Phone 310-440-6424
Fax 310-440-7741
amcgrew@getty.edu
>>> "Poisson, Marie-Chantale" <mpoisson@SFMOMA.org> 3/23/2007 9:55 AM
>>>
Hi,
We are currently trying to make a new crate for a painting by Georg
Herold, which consists of stretched linen on a strainer, onto which he
glued 9 bricks (red bricks used in construction), with a thick rubber
cement. The bricks simply follow gravity, pulling the fabric tight
downward, and they tend to giggle a lot when the piece is moved. They
are aligned vertically at about 3-4 inches apart, some are closer due to
the gravity pull. Does anybody have suggestions on a packing solution
that would facilitate the move to and from the crate and the wall?
Ideally we would want the bricks to be braced somehow so that the piece
can travel safely without the risk of ripping the canvas if the bricks
move too much...
Thank you for your help!
Marie-Chantale Poisson
Conservation Fellow
San Francisco Museum of Modern Art
mpoisson@sfmoma.org
The information contained in this electronic mail message (including any
attachments) is confidential information that may be covered by the
Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC Sections 2510-2521,
intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above, and
may be privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution,
or copying of this communication, or the taking of any action based on
it, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in
error, please immediately notify me and delete the original message.
Thank you
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:22:06 -0700
From: "Poisson, Marie-Chantale" <mpoisson@SFMOMA.org>
Subject: RE: Crating a painting with 3D elements
To: "PACIN ListServ" <pacinlist@pacin.org>
Message-ID:
<FE4932E414474E4B9B19C4A4B43CEC0F02285F92@monet.SFMOMA.ORG>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Thank you for so much information! We had a few ideas similar to the
ones you have, but not as detailed, this is really helpful, thank you
again and have a great week-end as well!
Marie-Chantale
-----Original Message-----
From: pacinlist-bounces@pacin.org [mailto:pacinlist-bounces@pacin.org]
On Behalf Of Ashley McGrew
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 11:28 AM
To: pacinlist@pacin.org
Subject: Re: Crating a painting with 3D elements
Poisson,
Based on your description you could make a wood collar that fits snugly
around the frame with a non abrasive material attached to prevent
abrasion. The collar should be several inches deep (like a travel frame
with no extra room around the sides). The back edge of the painting
should line up with one edge of the collar. Assure this by laying the
painting down face up on an even surface then place the collar around
it. At this point attach blocks to the collar that will hold the frame
in that location later when you move it.
Next, tip the painting into its display orientation. Have a couple of
battens to attach to the back of the collar to lock the frame in place
while you work and also later while in transit.
While upright with whatever degree of sag the piece finds on its own,
run one-by braces between the projecting part of the collar.
Use these braces to support the outer part of the bricks (avoiding the
paint surface). These braces, along with additional blocks should be
placed to restrict movement vertically and side to side. Other blocks or
strips should be attached to prevent forward movement of the bricks.
For the sake of accuracy rather than try to measure the placement of
your braces hold them up in the exact position required to contact the
bricks and mark the precise location on the collar.
Similarly for placement of the blocks you can attach a bit of
chemically stable double-stick tape to the part of the block that
contacts the braces (obviously keeping clear of the Art).
The tape is just to hold the blocks in the exact position required long
enough to remove the frame and then use screws to secure it permanently.
All this done you should have a support that allows you ride the
painting face down with the brick fully supported or possibly upright in
an end loading crate. The later option allows you to keep the piece in a
consistent orientation and might be beneficial.
Before you ship the piece place heavy twill tape or thin soft webbing
around the back of the painting (underneath the battens) so that when it
is time for installation you can remove the battens and still keep the
frame in the collar while you carry the piece to the wall. Once secured
to the wall this strap or straps can be slid out from behind the object
and the frame removed.
One downside is that the back must be condition reported in the collar
and then the front condition reported on the wall
On the other hand a potential advantage is that if you have your
conservators approve the materials used, same basic design could be used
for storage as well.
This could help slow down at least sounds as though will be the
inevitable deterioration of the piece.
It is rare that you get to make you get to achieve the ideal of having a
all purpose mount - one that is suitable for transit, handling and
storage but in this case it might be worth the effort.
It is kind of neat that notion that if done well the piece need never be
handled directly again (unless for treatment purposes)!
Ok disclaimer time - I have never seen the piece. I don't know scale or
any number of other things that would effect the design but I thought I
would respond with a general idea anyway.
It could be a very dopey one.
Please feel free to call if I have been totally unclear also.
Good luck with your project.
Have a good weekend!
T. Ashley McGrew
Lead Preparator
J. Paul Getty Museum
1200 Getty Center Drive
Los Angeles, CA 90049-1687
Phone 310-440-6424
Fax 310-440-7741
amcgrew@getty.edu
>>> "Poisson, Marie-Chantale" <mpoisson@SFMOMA.org> 3/23/2007 9:55 AM
>>>
Hi,
We are currently trying to make a new crate for a painting by Georg
Herold, which consists of stretched linen on a strainer, onto which he
glued 9 bricks (red bricks used in construction), with a thick rubber
cement. The bricks simply follow gravity, pulling the fabric tight
downward, and they tend to giggle a lot when the piece is moved. They
are aligned vertically at about 3-4 inches apart, some are closer due to
the gravity pull. Does anybody have suggestions on a packing solution
that would facilitate the move to and from the crate and the wall?
Ideally we would want the bricks to be braced somehow so that the piece
can travel safely without the risk of ripping the canvas if the bricks
move too much...
Thank you for your help!
Marie-Chantale Poisson
Conservation Fellow
San Francisco Museum of Modern Art
mpoisson@sfmoma.org
The information contained in this electronic mail message (including any
attachments) is confidential information that may be covered by the
Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC Sections 2510-2521,
intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above, and
may be privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution,
or copying of this communication, or the taking of any action based on
it, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in
error, please immediately notify me and delete the original message.
Thank you
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 15:51:14 -0700
From: "Ashley McGrew" <amcgrew@getty.edu>
Subject: RE: Crating a painting with 3D elements
To: <pacinlist@pacin.org>
Message-ID: <4603F772020000A800010CC2@mail.getty.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Marie-Chantale,
I was in a hurry and today is my day off so please forgive me for being
a bit fuzzy.
I do want to reiterate what I said about calling me if you wish. As
member of the Steering Committtee of PACIN I work with people all over
on packing concerns (my boss is fairly patient in that regard).
Truthfully in my current position at the Getty I mostly supervise
exhibition installation and rigging. I really prefer packing problems.
In another life I did alot of work for SFMOMA while doing commercial
work in New York. I was the head crate designer for the New York office
of ARTEX in the late '90s.
Please give me a call if there is anyway I can be of help. I am fairly
busy and yet VERY bored!
Your problem is actually helpful to me in an unexpected way. I would
like to use it as an example problem for a class I will be doing in May
for the UCLA/Getty graduate conservation program on packing. It is an
excellent example of some of the things that these students may face in
the future!
Thanks a lot!
Ashley
>>> "Poisson, Marie-Chantale" <mpoisson@SFMOMA.org> 03/23/07 12:22 PM
>>>
Thank you for so much information! We had a few ideas similar to the
ones you have, but not as detailed, this is really helpful, thank you
again and have a great week-end as well!
Marie-Chantale
-----Original Message-----
From: pacinlist-bounces@pacin.org [mailto:pacinlist-bounces@pacin.org]
On Behalf Of Ashley McGrew
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 11:28 AM
To: pacinlist@pacin.org
Subject: Re: Crating a painting with 3D elements
Poisson,
Based on your description you could make a wood collar that fits snugly
around the frame with a non abrasive material attached to prevent
abrasion. The collar should be several inches deep (like a travel frame
with no extra room around the sides). The back edge of the painting
should line up with one edge of the collar. Assure this by laying the
painting down face up on an even surface then place the collar around
it. At this point attach blocks to the collar that will hold the frame
in that location later when you move it.
Next, tip the painting into its display orientation. Have a couple of
battens to attach to the back of the collar to lock the frame in place
while you work and also later while in transit.
While upright with whatever degree of sag the piece finds on its own,
run one-by braces between the projecting part of the collar.
Use these braces to support the outer part of the bricks (avoiding the
paint surface). These braces, along with additional blocks should be
placed to restrict movement vertically and side to side. Other blocks or
strips should be attached to prevent forward movement of the bricks.
For the sake of accuracy rather than try to measure the placement of
your braces hold them up in the exact position required to contact the
bricks and mark the precise location on the collar.
Similarly for placement of the blocks you can attach a bit of
chemically stable double-stick tape to the part of the block that
contacts the braces (obviously keeping clear of the Art).
The tape is just to hold the blocks in the exact position required long
enough to remove the frame and then use screws to secure it permanently.
All this done you should have a support that allows you ride the
painting face down with the brick fully supported or possibly upright in
an end loading crate. The later option allows you to keep the piece in a
consistent orientation and might be beneficial.
Before you ship the piece place heavy twill tape or thin soft webbing
around the back of the painting (underneath the battens) so that when it
is time for installation you can remove the battens and still keep the
frame in the collar while you carry the piece to the wall. Once secured
to the wall this strap or straps can be slid out from behind the object
and the frame removed.
One downside is that the back must be condition reported in the collar
and then the front condition reported on the wall
On the other hand a potential advantage is that if you have your
conservators approve the materials used, same basic design could be used
for storage as well.
This could help slow down at least sounds as though will be the
inevitable deterioration of the piece.
It is rare that you get to make you get to achieve the ideal of having a
all purpose mount - one that is suitable for transit, handling and
storage but in this case it might be worth the effort.
It is kind of neat that notion that if done well the piece need never be
handled directly again (unless for treatment purposes)!
Ok disclaimer time - I have never seen the piece. I don't know scale or
any number of other things that would effect the design but I thought I
would respond with a general idea anyway.
It could be a very dopey one.
Please feel free to call if I have been totally unclear also.
Good luck with your project.
Have a good weekend!
T. Ashley McGrew
Lead Preparator
J. Paul Getty Museum
1200 Getty Center Drive
Los Angeles, CA 90049-1687
Phone 310-440-6424
Fax 310-440-7741
amcgrew@getty.edu
>>> "Poisson, Marie-Chantale" <mpoisson@SFMOMA.org> 3/23/2007 9:55 AM
>>>
Hi,
We are currently trying to make a new crate for a painting by Georg
Herold, which consists of stretched linen on a strainer, onto which he
glued 9 bricks (red bricks used in construction), with a thick rubber
cement. The bricks simply follow gravity, pulling the fabric tight
downward, and they tend to giggle a lot when the piece is moved. They
are aligned vertically at about 3-4 inches apart, some are closer due to
the gravity pull. Does anybody have suggestions on a packing solution
that would facilitate the move to and from the crate and the wall?
Ideally we would want the bricks to be braced somehow so that the piece
can travel safely without the risk of ripping the canvas if the bricks
move too much...
Thank you for your help!
Marie-Chantale Poisson
Conservation Fellow
San Francisco Museum of Modern Art
mpoisson@sfmoma.org
The information contained in this electronic mail message (including any
attachments) is confidential information that may be covered by the
Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC Sections 2510-2521,
intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above, and
may be privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution,
or copying of this communication, or the taking of any action based on
it, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in
error, please immediately notify me and delete the original message.
Thank you
End of Pacinlist Digest, Vol 21, Issue 9
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