Re: {Collins} Paint matching



Guys, The S-Line paint was provided to Collins by the Klinger Paint Company
in Cedar Rapids, IA.  In all likelihood, Collins went to them and asked what
they offered in the way of that kind of grey, or even went more generally,
from the industrial design standpoint and looked at color swatches. If that
S-Line Klinger paint were an exact, and I mean exact, the same as the ASA
numbered standard electrical paint, I am betting that Collins did not pick
it for that reason. But it isn't.

Now, here is the skinny from the horse's mouth.  I know the guy that works
on the Rockwell Collins paints, and he has been at Klinger forever. The
numbers that Klinger Paint uses in house to ID those S-Line and A-Line
paints are the Rockwell Collins paint code numbers which are consistent with
the numbers used by Surplus Sales of Nebraska.

180	S-Line Cabinet
126	S-Line Trim Ring
250	S-Line Panel
270	A-Line St. James Grey ( No longer wrinkle due to OSHA regs)

And Klinger only sells these paints to SSoN exclusively now...So, do not go
asking them for paint because they do not sell it to individuals any longer.
And if they did, folks, we are talking more than $100 per gallon which is
what I paid them for a gallon of St. James grey 12 years ago.

I asked about the ASA number just to make sure. The ASA 61 paint (and they
do make this also) is a similar formula to their Collins 180 code
paint....BUT IT IS NOT THE SAME.

We all know that enamel can change color pretty dramatically with age, so
you need to start with the 180, see how it works and then you may need to
"darken" it.

In fact, when I use the Klinger 270 to work on A-Line equipment, I have to
add a little black to it to get it a tidge darker to account for aging.

That is the straight scoop.  And, yes, it will go up on the website soon as
I write it up.

Bill
Bill Carns, N7OTQ
K0CXX, Trustee MRCCC
President Collins Collectors Association
Editor, Signal Magazine
Founding Member # AC94-0009
512 618 2762 (Cell + VM)
512 847 7010 (Home + Fax)



-----Original Message-----
From: Collins [mailto:collins-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jerry
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 9:09 AM
To: 'Paul Kraemer'; collins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: {Collins} Paint matching

Hi Paul,

But is it Collins S-Line gray or is the S-Line a unique shade that Art
wanted?  If it was such a standard back then why did Collins go out of their
way to tweak it?

73 Jerry
K1JOS

-----Original Message-----
From: Collins [mailto:collins-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Paul
Kraemer
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 10:00 AM
To: rjwilliams@xxxxxxx; collins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Chris
Subject: Re: {Collins} Paint matching

ASA 61 is a standard industrial color formula that is "older than dirt" used
on military and industrial controls Paul K0UYA

----- Original Message -----
From: <rjwilliams@xxxxxxx>
To: <collins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Chris" <kc9ieq@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: {Collins} Paint matching


> Last year I purchased a 30L-1 with a terrible paint job, so I looked 
> to a local company that does sandblasting for help. Anything close 
> could be an improvement.  As long as I was at it I took the cabinets 
> of my S-line and
> KWM-2 for help. They have a color for the cabinets ID d  as ASA 61 Grey. 
> Next to cabinets not painted, the match seems perfect to these old 
> eyes. I do not know if  ASA 61 Grey  is an In house mixture or a 
> universal mixture, but it works. If not universal, I can see about 
> obtaining the mix.
> rw
>
>
>
>
> ---- Chris <kc9ieq@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Thanks everyone for the replies!
>
> Agreed, many things can affect final color or sheen besides the paint 
> itself.  Temp, humidity, surface prep, gun and technique, the list 
> goes on and on.  That I can try to tailor if conditions yield a funky 
> result on the test panel, however the basic color I can not- except 
> for perhaps the idea of requesting cups of tint to take home and tweak it
in yourself.
> Also yes, I fully realize paint ages and oxides.  On the military rig 
> I am doing now, (bc-799b), there was a data plate screwed to the front 
> panel which preserved a nice small section of unexposed, unoxidized 
> paint.  That is what I intended to match, not the surfaces exposed to 
> light, ozone; god knows what else over the last 70 years.  The same 
> would apply to anything else a match is attempted at, when possible.
>
> The SW stores near me apparently do not stock the commercial epoxy 
> paints as was mentioned, they only seem to have residential latex and 
> a few oils- nor could they add flattening agent to any existing bases.  
> (Boy did that get a funny look!).  I will try and locate a larger 
> store somewhere here in IL and give them another shot.
> Variations batch to batch-  yup that is another issue entirely, and 
> part of the reason why I wasn't too crazy about trusting formulas found
online.
> One there's no guarantee how close a mix that formula was in the first 
> place, two the piece that person happened to match could have been a 
> fair bit different than your particular piece.  Third, automotive 
> paints have a very different tint system.  In auto paints there is no 
> such thing as a deep, semi-transparent, etc base.  ALL the pigment is 
> added by a person or machine.  For a tough-as-nails finish, getting a 
> pint or quart made from that published formula in a single stage 
> urethane for example, may or may not even be possible.
> the second could probably be overlooked..  But then again, the 
> majority of my concerns would probably be overlooked by most.  If it 
> ain't all scraped up and basically the right color; it's all good, right?!
>
> Any more tips or ideas, please send them along.  I will be sure to 
> post an update if anything new should surface!
>
> Thanks and Regards,
> Chris kc9ieq
>
> Sent from my outdated iPhone wireless thingy
>
> On Dec 12, 2012, at 3:29 PM, Curt Nixon <cptcurt@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Hi Chris:
>>
>> I'll throw in my 2c worth as I have spent a lot of time painting and 
>> having special paints mixed.  I have always had good luck with the 
>> PPG or Dupont auto paint places.  All the large city locations have 
>> computerized matching systems that mix from standard pigment stocks.
They do this all
>> the time.  Here is the "rub" tho.   Lots of stuff affects the final 
>> color--first of what you see vs what the computer samples, and second, 
>> what the final applied color will be.   The primer, color barrier, gun 
>> setup and surface finish will all affect the final observed color.  
>> The light you look at it with also has a lot to do with it.  I had 
>> occasion to do some work at the GM styling center and you would not 
>> believe what they go thru to define and control colors.
>>
>> Also, as paints age and pick up airborne contaminant, the color also 
>> changes---even if covered up...So, in my opinion, you can get close, 
>> but it will NEVER be a perfect match.  I have sprayed several pcs 
>> from the same can, and had it come out enough different to tell--for the
>> application variances mentioned above.   If you can find a good paint 
>> guy, willing to spend the time, he will tell you more than you ever 
>> wanted to know.
>>
>> Hope you get it close enough to be happy with it.
>>
>> Curt
>> KU8L
>>
>> On 12/12/2012 4:14 PM, Chris wrote:
>>> Many have had paint mixed and matched to respray their Collins 
>>> boxes, and SSN sells it in quarts and bomb cans.  I have purchased 
>>> some of their paint before, and it is good..  But not an *exact* 
>>> match, at least to the piece I was painting.  My inquiry goes deeper 
>>> than this though-
>>>
>>> Most places including auto body paint shops have a computer matching 
>>> system that matches a sample to already present formulations, and 
>>> rates how close they are.  They then mix the closest formula, and 
>>> attempt to tweak it by hand for a close, but often not exact dead-nuts
on match.
>>> For example, a military Front panel I will be spraying was a tweaked 
>>> Ford Gray enamel. (Was hoping for a urethane, but it's still an auto 
>>> paint so should be tougher than the hardware store stuff).  The end 
>>> result is a slight bit lighter and does not have quite the greenish 
>>> tinge as the original lacquer, but is the closest I could hope to 
>>> get of the suppliers I am aware of.
>>>
>>> So my question is this- are there any matching systems that actually 
>>> take the sample and spit out a custom formulation that, in theory, 
>>> should be exact without need of the operator to tweak it?  Where or 
>>> what paint houses have such systems??  I have a 30S-1 that has 
>>> turned out to be a much larger project than anticipated, and will be 
>>> needing to spray the entire cabinet.  Ideally, it would be nice to 
>>> have available an exact color for front panel touch ups, and 
>>> countless other radios that weren't built in I-O-way.  Maybe I'm 
>>> just pickier than most..  But if I'm going to go to the trouble and 
>>> effort of having paint custom mixed and then go through the proper 
>>> paces to professionally spray it, I want it to be dead nuts on.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Chris kc9ieq
>>>
>>> Sent from my outdated iPhone wireless thingy 
>>> _______________________________________________
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> _______________________________________________
> SHARE THE FUN: JOIN THE COLLINS COLLECTORS ASSOCIATION TODAY !
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>
> NETS: Tues & Thur: 3.805 MHz-2000 Central + Fri: 3.895 MHz-2000 
> Pacific
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>
> The Collins Reflector reserves the right to refuse access to anyone.
>
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> to the list admins and does not post to the group!
>
> --
>
>
> rj williams
> Fideli Certa Merces
> "To the faithful there is
> just reward"
>
> _______________________________________________
> SHARE THE FUN: JOIN THE COLLINS COLLECTORS ASSOCIATION TODAY !
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>
> NETS: Tues & Thur: 3.805 MHz-2000 Central + Fri: 3.895 MHz-2000 
> Pacific
>  SUNDAYS: 14.263 MHz-2000 UTC  +  AM Net: 29.050 MHz-1200 Central  1st 
> Wednesday AM Net 3.880 MHz-2000 local (ET, CT, MT, PT)
>
> The Collins Reflector reserves the right to refuse access to anyone.
>
> LIST HELP?  ADMIN EMAIL:  collins-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxx This ONLY goes 
> to the list admins and does not post to the group!
> 

_______________________________________________
SHARE THE FUN: JOIN THE COLLINS COLLECTORS ASSOCIATION TODAY !
http://www.collinsradio.org/?page_id=37

 NETS: Tues & Thur: 3.805 MHz-2000 Central + Fri: 3.895 MHz-2000 Pacific
  SUNDAYS: 14.263 MHz-2000 UTC  +  AM Net: 29.050 MHz-1200 Central
  1st Wednesday AM Net 3.880 MHz-2000 local (ET, CT, MT, PT)

The Collins Reflector reserves the right to refuse access to anyone.

LIST HELP?  ADMIN EMAIL:  collins-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxx This ONLY goes to the
list admins and does not post to the group!

_______________________________________________
SHARE THE FUN: JOIN THE COLLINS COLLECTORS ASSOCIATION TODAY !
http://www.collinsradio.org/?page_id=37

 NETS: Tues & Thur: 3.805 MHz-2000 Central + Fri: 3.895 MHz-2000 Pacific
  SUNDAYS: 14.263 MHz-2000 UTC  +  AM Net: 29.050 MHz-1200 Central
  1st Wednesday AM Net 3.880 MHz-2000 local (ET, CT, MT, PT)

The Collins Reflector reserves the right to refuse access to anyone.

LIST HELP?  ADMIN EMAIL:  collins-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxx This ONLY goes to the
list admins and does not post to the group!


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