Re: {Collins} Fw: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: 30L-1 - convert between 115Vand 230V



OK Guys....follow me through here and let's get this settled..

The resistive loss in a winding is the current in the winding squared x
winding resistance..   Instead of trying to visualize what winding is
getting what current etc, let's do a little substitution in the winding loss
formula.

Using good old ohms law, Power lost is also the voltage across the winding
squared divided by the winding resistance.

When set up for 240 operation the windings are in series and there is 240
Vac across the two, so each winding has 120 Vac across it.
When set up for 120 Vac operation, the windings are in parallel and each
winding still has just, and exactly, 120 Vac across it = as before.

Now apply the loss formula to each winding,  Same voltages  - same windings
- same loss in each winding individually and thus same resistive heating
loss whether configured for 120 V or 240 v...  End of discussion.

Efficiency in the transformer is the same whether on 240 or 120.  Plus or
minus a little line cord loss (minimal)

Like I said, no free lunch

Bill



-----Original Message-----
From: Collins [mailto:collins-bounces+wcarns=austin.rr.com@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of W4FID - John Wiley
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2014 2:58 PM
To: Stanley M Miln; COLLINS@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: {Collins} Fw: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: 30L-1 - convert between
115Vand 230V

My understanding is the loss in a piece of wire due from electricity flowing
thru it is I squared R. Since the wire in a transformer is fixed -- size,
length, all that -- the resistance will be whatever it is and not change due
to the voltage flowing thru it. So if the loss is I squared R and the R is
fixed then less I means less loss (aka less heat). Half the current flow
should mean a quarter of the loss.

Not Collins but life/electrical in general ............. high voltage lines
in the power distribution grid are high voltage to reduce loss in them. High
current devices in your home like stoves and dryers are 220 volt for the
same reason -- allows smaller gage wiring.

John  W4FID



----- Original Message -----
From: "Stanley M Miln" <k6rmr@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <COLLINS@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2014 3:42 PM
Subject: {Collins} Fw: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: 30L-1 - convert between 115Vand
230V


>
>
>> 4A x 230v = 920 watts
>> 8A x 115v = 920 watts
>>
>> Duh...
>>
>> I don't care when or where you went to school....
>> You can't be this ignorant.
>>
>>
>> 73
>>
>> David Harmon
>> K6XYZ
>> Sperry, OK
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Stanley M Miln [mailto:k6rmr@xxxxxxxxxxx]
>> Sent: Saturday, November 8, 2014 2:15 PM
>> To: David Harmon
>> Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: {Collins} [Bulk] Re: 30L-1 - convert between 
>> 115V and 230V
>>
>>  Hi Dave
>> The Current in a wire is the same as Water going down  a hose. The 
>> Voltage is the Water,(Pressure) and the  Current is like the water,  
>> what goes through the hose. There is less  Voltage drop in the Power 
>> cord at 240 and less  Heat generated.
>> This is Basic Electronic Theory. When I went to  Electronic School 50 
>> Years ago , we Learned this  the first day of School.
>>                  Stan K6RMR
>>
>>>
>>> But there is twice the voltage so the wattage is the same....duh
>>>
>>>
>>> 73
>>>
>>> David Harmon
>>> K6XYZ
>>> Sperry, OK
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Stanley M Miln [mailto:k6rmr@xxxxxxxxxxx]
>>> Sent: Saturday, November 8, 2014 1:54 PM
>>> To: Dave; 'David Harmon'; 'Rick Poole WA1RKT'; 'collins'
>>> Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: {Collins} [Bulk] Re: 30L-1 - convert between 
>>> 115V and 230V
>>>
>>>  Current draw is what heats up the Transformer and  the power supply 
>>> not the Voltage. There is half the  current going down the power 
>>> cord on 240 Volts.
>>>              Stan K6RMR
>>>
>>>> Watts are watts no difference in  heat dissipated in power supply 
>>>> transformer.  Primary windings are in either series or parallel in 
>>>> the same transformer.  The iron doesn't know the difference.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Stanley M Miln [mailto:k6rmr@xxxxxxxxxxx]
>>>> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 7:44 PM
>>>> To: Dave; 'David Harmon'; 'Rick Poole WA1RKT'; 'collins'
>>>> Subject: [Bulk] Re: {Collins} [Bulk] Re: 30L-1 - convert between 
>>>> 115V and 230V
>>>>
>>>>  Hi Dave
>>>> One good thing about running the 30L1 on 240Volts  is you only pull 
>>>> about
>>>> 4
>>>> amps on the AC in instead  of 8 Amps. That would generate less heat 
>>>> in the Power Supply.
>>>>                    Stan K6RMR
>>>>
>>>>> It is my understanding that stock 30L1 amps came from the factory 
>>>>> wired for
>>>>> 120 volts.  (or maybe a little lower back then).  I have had them 
>>>>> wired both ways and have had identical performance.  Rewiring the 
>>>>> terminal strip[ is touchy since it gets fragile with age.  Also, 
>>>>> some of the AC distributing experts out there have issues with the 
>>>>> Collins
>>>>> 240 volt setup which I don't totally understand,  something about 
>>>>> line balance. When I had the shack wired for 240 I added a 120v 20 
>>>>> amp line direct to the panel.  That is where my current 30L1 lives
>>> happily.
>>>>> Dave
>>>>> W7VM
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Collins
>>>>> [mailto:collins-bounces+d.gow=frontier.com@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
>>>>> Behalf Of David Harmon
>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 3:33 PM
>>>>> To: 'Rick Poole WA1RKT'; 'collins'
>>>>> Subject: [Bulk] Re: {Collins} 30L-1 - convert between 115V and 
>>>>> 230V
>>>>> Importance: High
>>>>>
>>>>> Rick....there is a service bulletin pertaining to ensuring that 
>>>>> the fuse holders are wired correctly....see the CCA website.
>>>>> Also....with the unit upside down looking toward the front....the 
>>>>> terminal strip counts R/L...opposite to what you might think.
>>>>> Follow the rig manual to make the changes on the TS.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 73
>>>>>
>>>>> David Harmon
>>>>> K6XYZ
>>>>> Sperry, OK
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Collins
>>>>> [mailto:collins-bounces+k6xyz=sbcglobal.net@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of Rick Poole WA1RKT
>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 7, 2014 5:26 PM
>>>>> To: collins
>>>>> Subject: {Collins} 30L-1 - convert between 115V and 230V
>>>>>
>>>>> I have three 30L-1 amps, two wired for 115V and one wired for 230V.
>>>>> I can discern absolutely no difference in the performance, and 
>>>>> it'll be more convenient if all three are wired for 115V, so I'm 
>>>>> converting the
>>>>> 230 back to 115.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have this vague recollection that there was more to the 
>>>>> conversion to
>>>>> 230
>>>>> than just changing the jumpers on the power strip.  Someone on one 
>>>>> of these reflectors had come up with a recommendation to do X in 
>>>>> order to prevent some bad thing from happening.  But, I can't 
>>>>> find, or remember, the details.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ring any bells with anyone?
>>>>>
>>>>> Rick WA1RKT
>>>>> *** You are subscribed to Collins as k6xyz@xxxxxxxxxxxxx. If you 
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>>>>>
>>>>> *** You are subscribed to Collins as d.gow@xxxxxxxxxxxx. If you 
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>>>>>
>>>>> *** You are subscribed to Collins as k6rmr@xxxxxxxxxxx. If you 
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>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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